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Spinning Tops For Sale Question

Ken asks…

What is OBAMA doing or has done to help the economy and the people?

Obama’s ploy saying he will only raise taxes on those making over 250k is bogus. Why not extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone, better yet, why not reduce our taxes even more!!! Because this is a time for government to take OUR money, guess what, the government will also be taking money from all of us too if they tax those making over 250k.

Giving a tax break to those who really need it,,,,the hard working middle class!!! What is the incentive to work when we all pay such very high taxes? NATURALLY, A tax break to help small businesses possibly hire more employees, a tax break to buy work related equipment, expand you business, I CERTAINLY would not stick my neck out financially when the government is constantly in my pocket book TAXING me what I’ve earned, I just couldn’t take the chance when I’m just barely paying the bills and employees the way it is…. it’s almost to the point that I’m spinning my wheels busting my a$$ and not having much money to show for at the end of the week.

The current economic crisis is like a MONOPOLY game but you know someone is cheating, the game is fixed and really not worth playing…. there’s hardly no money in circulation for the other players that can be used, the bank (gov.) can print their own money for their own agenda, come and take our money and our property whenever they want, give your money and property to other players,
but all of the properties and monies are limited and all owned by the government before the game even starts, and it’s your turn to roll the dice….. What I personally do is flip the board over, and let all the game pieces hit the floor all over the entire room and say screw it, I’m not playing anymore, I’m done, game over, I quit. So, if the government can’t help us help ourselves, then they will be getting NO (ZERO DOLLAR) tax revenue from me. Raising TAXES now would be a kick in the teeth for all of us, even those making over 250k annually will affect everyone indirectly. The 787 Billion dollar stimulus bill scam is one fine example as what they did…. screwed us. The stimulus bill is a pork barrel earmarked spending spree to legally misappropriate our money for their own need. Read some of the bill and SEE where our money is being wastefully spent that doesn’t help us…. it’s a scam people, a scam.

www.readthestimulus.org

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Estate Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Tax
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Right to work tax
Road Usage Tax (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Tax
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

scottparat answers:

Barack Hussein Obama, has systematically set out, to derail the United States of America.
And we the people are the only ones that can stop this. It is time to step up, And put a end
to this mans purpose. Come Nov. Tie this fools hands behind his back. Put duck tape over
his big ass mouth, and render him the insignificant person he really should be.

Susan asks…

Fair tax–is it fair? How did Boortz get so many middle class people on board?

I’ll start with a very basic explanation of what it is. If you already know, skip down to the asterisks.

The fair tax abolishes income tax altogether and instates a national sales tax on all purchases. It’s debated what the tax would have to be to make it work. Most think somewhere between 20% and 30%. This would be on top of any state or local taxes you already pay for purchases.

So, for example your car that you bought for $10,000 used to have $650 in taxes at 6.5% but now it would have $2,350 in taxes to make up for the income tax you are no longer paying.

The argument is that it changes the tax based on earning to spending. People who earn a lot but save their money are rewarded. People who spend a lot but don’t earn a lot pay more in tax.
***********************************************************************
Here’s what most supporters like. Even people that are currently skating past the current tax system would have to pay taxes. Illegal immigrants, drug dealers, prostitutes etc. would have to pay taxes because they are still buying things.

Here’s my problem with the “Fair Tax.” Number one, beware any law that uses a word like “fair” in it.

The top 5% of earners currently pay 95% of the tax, right? The rest of us only pay 5%.

This seems too simple. Do you think the top 5% earners are making 95% of the purchases in the country? Of course not. Where’s that money going to come from? Will the tax collected from low income workers like, prostitutes, drug dealers and illegal immigrants make up for it? On average those people are making just enough to get by. They’re not buying a lot of frivolous products.

Secondarily, there is a natural cut off to spending.

Does someone that makes $50,000 spend double what somebody that makes $25,000. Probably.

Does someone that makes $300,000 spend double what somebody that makes $150,000. Probably.

Does someone that makes $300 million spend double what somebody that makes $150 million. Not likely. At a certain point you are buying everything you can think of already.

So where are they going to come up with the difference. I think the answer is clear. Not from someone making $25,000 a year. They can just barely swing their bills and essentials.

It’ll come from people making $40,000 to $200,000. The people that could pay more if they had to. But those people will feel a huge burden while millionaires have more money than ever before.

Correct me if you think my logic is wrong but I think I’ve got this one down.

This topic came up in a past conversation. I’ll add it as I think it’s pertinent.

The wealthy already pay a much lower percent of their income in taxes. They always say they pay a lot more taxes, but they’re just spinning it. The rich pay a much higher dollar amount but a much lower percent of their income.

Seems silly that someone who could much better afford to pay a higher percent actually gets away with lower.

So, how did Boortz get everyone in the middle class on board? Was it just the promise that this will lower your taxes? Was it that all of those other people that are getting away with nothing will have to pay taxes?

Do you agree that anyone making less than $300,000 will have higher taxes? If so give me an example of how that would work.
Joe

I think you missed the brunt of my argument.

Where is that money that used to be paid by corporations and the rich going to come from?

Lets say prices on items do go down because of the embedded taxes that corporations pay. That means money is no longer going to the government. Only two options here, either the fed starts spending less money or they get the money from someone else.

I think you’d agree that removing the IRS would actually only have a small effect on how much the government spends. No more IRS, great now we’ve finally got the money for . . . you name it right?

What about the wealthy paying 95% of the taxes? Where’s the rest going to come from now that we tax on purchases? They don’t buy 95% of all purchases. I think you need to reread my rebuttal to the fair tax and really think about this.

Unless you’re a millionaire, then you’ve got it straight.
Sorry NYC, it looks like you’ve completely missed my point as your argument is already defeated by what I’ve mentioned earlier.

Your basis is both that the government will spend less if they have less tax money coming in and the rich will eventually spend all of their money. Both assumptions are incorrect.

scottparat answers:

Gabriel – great question and very well thought out. Fair is definitely subjective, but I agree with all of your reasoning.

I want to address one of the other answers which is the root of the problem why the middle class listened to Boritz.

Joe L said “the person who nets only 20K of their 35K” LETS stop right there. This is such a misinformed assumption as no one in the US making 35k is paying 15K in taxes as that represents a 43% tax rate. I don’t know if its naivety or just plain ignorance but when you start with such ridiculous assumptions you are bound to arrive a flawed conclusions.

What is true is that people will have more take home pay assuming incomes do not change. However, this leads to the second flaw in Joe L’s reasoning (sorry to pick on you Joe, but you represent the flawed reasoning of the average proponent for the Fairtax). Joe states, “When corporate taxes are eliminated with the fair tax, the likelihood that prices will drop is pretty certain.” Well, the obvious nature is that they will go down BEFORE the Fairtax is added; however, all these embedded taxes are taxes that are being REPLACED by the Fairtax…in other words, they are put right back on to the top of prices just under a different name.

To put it plainly in an example (the numbers do not matter; it’s the math that is critical to understand):

If Joe makes $65 and pay $15 in taxes thus has a take-home pay of $50…
ABC Company sells a good for $100 that has $25 of embedded taxes…
..then the government is currently collecting $40 in taxes.

The Fairtax proposes to remove the income tax, remove the embedded tax, and now collect those taxes in the form of a sales tax. So now the situation looks like this:

Joe Makes and takes home $65
ABC Company sells a good for $75 (no embedded tax) and but has a sales tax of $40 for a total cost of $115

Joe L would have you believe that somehow the cost of the good would go down in price, but in fact, if the government is going to raise the same amount of taxes, then the collection of the taxes, even those embedded taxes, will still need to be collected and thus ALL of it will be lumped onto the price of the goods.

Of course those like Joe will say that this is not the 23% proposed…but it doesn’t matter, plug in any percentage you wish and have a final total amount collected equal at the end and the situation is the same, net prices HAVE to go up to account for what the tax is replacing, and this is merely balanced out by higher net pay.

***edit*** rolling eyes at NYC_Sync. Ever heard of investing?!?!

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